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Back to Videos Page 1 It a pretty wild shot. Valle is near and dear to my paragliding heart but it sure can kick your ass. The pilot is said to have only minor injuries. Joined: 19 Jan 2005 1) Stall. From the vario tone, pilot enters a thermal, but instead of reducing brake pull during entry he increases it, and we even see the rear risers go slack. We hear a great rush of air some time after the stall from the wing surging. 2) Cahotic series of events (cravate on left side?), which eventually lead to a locked spiral dive. Pilot does not seem to use enough brake pull during this phase (we do see his hands at times). Typical mistake to attempt some braking but stop at what is considered an acceptable tension, without realizing more is needed to dissipate the energy of the high G (and wing loading) situation. I have some admiration for Joe who seemed to remain calm (from his tone on the radio) throughout the event, and made a good call to use his reserve. I caught this one off the CPC list recently and have to admit it really freaked me out. Seeing an event like this on video really makes one think (or made me think anyway) about why we fly. Nick has a good thread about this very topic going in general discussions. After watching it my heart was literally pounding, my palms sweaty, and regardless of what Joe did right or wrong (which I would never speculate on having so little experience) all I could think about was what a cool customer he was. So calm! Kudos to Joe for chucking that's for sure. I would have shit my pants and been screaming like a little girl the whole way down... I have no doubt of that! Very glad he's okay. It's painful to watch, but a good reminder of what's possible! Spring is coming... be careful! Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Are you having trouble viewing? I use MacOS X... you on that or Linux or something non-Bill? Have you tried VLC or MPlayer (specifically command line ./mplayer -dumpstream?). I have yet to find a way to convert WMV to QT/MPG/AVI on MacOS X though I'm still looking. The video plays fine though for me and is very good quality. Feel free to PM me if you have questions, but IIRC you know more about video than I ever would. Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Joined: 01 Feb 2005 I'm curious though, what's the DHV rating for that wing? The cravate didn't look that bad to me, but it seemed to wind up in the spiral pretty fast. R Joined: 04 Feb 2005 Quote: Joe enterd a thermal. seeing this a little higher and not far away i started heading for him . the glider pitched back upon entering the thermal as soom as it did Joe pulled a lttle brake, joe's glider piched back further becouse it wanted no brake at that moment. then the wing attempted to move forward when it did Joe pulled all the brake he could and held it....for a long time. the tips slowly started to peel back and stall, finaly the whole glider fell back in to what looked like a purposefull fullstall ( massive brake pull for long time) when he comes under the glider he was not holding enough brake to keep a stall or prevent the wing from a surge to 90 and full frontal/ line slack, into a asy deflation that crevatted and then spirales to reserve toss/ tree landing A similar thing happened the day before with Joe, he was able to recover. i did not see the beginning of that one but I saw him whip stalling the glider intell finally after a big surge to line slack deflation shock opening in to streight flight recovery. Joe just comes off a bolero plus. he orderd the zoom and booked a clinic with me in seattle. The weather did not allow us to complete the course, a couple monthes later Joe was in mexico with his zoom. not intell the last day was his incident. I think he was strung out from the prior incident and was afrade of getting a frontal. It was great to see joe was ok after the event. and what's up with the reserve bag still in his hand? It truly is an amazing video to watch. It gives the exactly feeling of violence that comes from such a dynamic incident. I never picked up half of the things that Enleau did. The one strange thing is why he would hold such brake going into the thermal? I really like to slow the glider down when I get in there, but enough to almost stall it, on the way in. Some other uncanny things are of his giving his height just before and saying someone else is a much better pilot so are fine. I am not sure how high the landing is but he sure loses that 9000ft (2500m) pretty quick. Something tells me that this will be one of the classic videos of all time. All those smooth, helmet cam videos and it takes a wicked incident like this to make one complusive viewing. Still - a great video and good to hear the genuine concern of the locals when he finally gets to the ground. ' esta bien?, esta bien?' Wonder what his answer was. Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Just like to pose a couple of questions to the brains trust. 1) What is the general rule for clearing a cravat whilst locked into a spiral? 2) When decending by reserve, should you pull in the canopy to avoid the two opposing eachother. Thanks. Joined: 27 Jan 2005 If the opposite brake coming out of the spiral causes the stall, get ready to hold it. Once in the full stall, intentionally or not, hold it until stablised above, or in front of you and then brakes up. Let it open, check the dive and fly away. It is amazing how one can give the theory without ever being in the situation In reality, unless you have your shit together and plenty of height, the panic of such an extreme event means a reserve toss - done well in this case. Spiral dive, stall, recovery, another one if the cravat is still not out. You need plenty of height and calm nerves. I watched the video this morning and was sitting at my desk marking exams, thinking of this and whether I would have kept myself together enough to have done better (or as well ) It captures the whole feel of a major collapse so well. Simon My sentiments exactly. All the way. This video will become a classic, for sure. My hands are too shaky to write anything else. I'm gonna watch the video again, like the adrenaline junkie I am. Joined: 27 Jan 2005 My impressions: * He enters a strong thermal, and keeps the brakes on, instead of letting the wing fly into it. * The D riser goes slack for 2 or 3 seconds, and there is no pilot reaction. * The glider then spins, and the brakes are still hard on. Should be off by now, to let it fly. At this point in the video I start to shout at him to get the brakes off. * He unravels himself fron the spin, and is in a spiral. The brakes are still on, both of them, maintaining the spiral. * He pulls the reserve. Good move at this point. Both his hands are trapped in the brake handles. The glider goes apeshit at this point, but the reserve comes out. * As he lands in the tree, his hands are still stuck in the brake handles.
A great educational film. I'm glad he survived. I think an SIV course may be called for.... I'm starting a poll about it here: http://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=3237#3237 Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Joe seems to "hit every branch of the ugly tree" on the way down to arrive on the ground relatively unhurt! Joined: 18 Jan 2005 [url]http://www.paraglidingforum.com.nyud.net:8090/files/joeparrspiraltreelandingmexico2005.wmv [/url] Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Hope Joe is ok now and also I want to thank him for sharing this. That takes pesonality. albi wrote: 2) When decending by reserve, should you pull in the canopy to avoid the two opposing eachother. The answer to that is yes. Your descent speed is going to be much higher with the canopy opposing the chute. On the topic of full stall (and a bit off the topic of this thread), before doing my SIV I watched Jocky's video a number of times and thought I had a pretty good idea of what was involved. The only worry I had was about the 'release when the glider is above or in front of you ' bit which sounds easy, but when things go wild may not be so straightforward. Anyway, my instructor taught me another method which I'd like to share here. From the fully locked in position, first wait until the glider more or less stabilises itself from the initial pendulum effect (takes 2 seconds). Now symmetrically let up your hands slowly roughly to the level of your biners . You will experience another pendulum, but nothing extreme, and the glider is now out of its full stall configuration but not yet flying. Note however that you already have directional control by weightshift at this point. Again, wait for the first pendulum and for the glider to come overhead and now let up and stop the dive. I did this a few times and I was very pleasantly surprised by the amount of control it gave me over a fairly drastic manoeuvre. The bit I found most disturbing was actually going into the stall (apart from the nerves), when one half of the glider stalls before the other one and you have to physically correct for that (i.e. push the other brake like ....) in order not to get into a very asymmetric situation. I had never thought about that... I guess that is why we do an SIV course..
Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Some other uncanny things are of his giving his height just before and saying someone else is a much better pilot so are fine. I am not sure how high the landing is but he sure loses that 9000ft (2500m) pretty quick. Simon, The thing about Valle de Bravo is that it often very rough and crowded at launch & when you leave the air seems to smooth out a bit. I thought the conversation he had was similar to many I've had in Valle.... Also realize the 9000' is only 1300' over launch. so he was probably only 1500-2000' over the ground. I must agree that the line "I'm on the groud now" was the funniest thing I've heard in a while! Thanks for sharing the video. This time I saw 2 more things: 1. The small cravate everyone is refering too is on the "wrong" side of the spiral, so it is not the reason for the spiral. 2. When he landed on the tree and was talking to his friends on the radio, someoane asked him to give him GPS coords. He said his GPS was somewhere in his harness, and try to reach for it. Still with his left hand in the brake handle, it is obvious he could not get his hand out of the handle to reach his GPS. Conclusions: 1. He should have stopped the spiral before it got wild by opposite brake. Even if he stalled the glider for a while it would have been better than the steep spiral and easier to recover from. Question: If it's not too blunt, what camera was he using? Great footage! (and nice wide angle, too) Joined: 23 Jan 2005 It looks to me like the small cravate is on the left-hand tip. And the spiral is left-handed as well. Surely that's as expected? Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Joined: 19 Jan 2005 During the spiral it looks like he's holding on quite a lot of brake on both sides: it looks like about 12 inches on the left, and averages about 12 inches on the right although he does make some pumping actions with the right. Immediately after the reserve chuck we see that the cravat has cleared from the glider, although obviously the opening shock might have caused this. Is it possible that he stays in the spiral/cravat because he's holding on too much brake, especially on the left? With the benefit of hindsight, would it have been better to go hands up in the spin? Joined: 10 Feb 2005 http://www.lagparty.org/~greenmntn/JoesReserve.mp4 I love that the first thing he does after landing in the tree is pick a twig out of his lines. Like "yep, might as well get started with *this* twig. I'll deal with the wing wrapped in a 50ft tree later." Glad he's ok. Got a good *gasp* and a good chuckle out of the video...In that order. Joined: 23 Feb 2005 If it's not too blunt, what camera was he using? Great footage! (and nice wide angle, too) Answer: sorry a bit off topic... -Jeff Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Joined: 10 Feb 2005 http://www.paraglidingforum.com.nyud.net:8090/files/joeparrspiraltreelandingmexico2005.wmv if you're using WMP. Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Joe made the comment after the deployment that "that sure hurt". I wonder what he was referring to, the stall/spiral, opening shock, or what? You should disable your paraglider after your reserve deploys if time/altitude permits. There are several ways to do that but just reeling in a brake line until you have fabric in your hands should do the trick But one of the most important points to learn from the video is it ain't over till it's over. Your first priority after any tree landing should be to secure yourself to the tree. I, too, cracked up at the preoccupation with twigs in the lines when the canopy was still hung up. It is amazing, though, what people will do during and shortly after stressful situations. I took a bad tumble on launch a couple of years ago (trying to do a forward in a slight tailwind prior to the edge... doh!). Shortly after tumbling to a stop and realizing nothing was obviously broken, I noticed it was cycling uphill and made hurried preparations to get back to launch and quickly relaunch prior to any swelling setting in. That was probably not the proper choice although I did get to the LZ faster than I would have if I had to ride back down. Joined: 31 Jan 2005 The bolero is a super safe DHV 1 glider and the zoom is a high end dhv 2. The zoom is a replacement for the nomad which was the 2-3 high performace wing. The next step up in the Gin range is the boomerang. I have seen a very experienced pilot in some "interesting" moments on his new zoom. Im sure it is a good glider but alot of people have bought them who wouldnt have if it was rated 2-3. The DHV 2 rating doesnt mean that it is suitable for someone going up from a standard DHV 1-2 (or DHV 1). Joined: 19 Jan 2005 "ok, so if the wing's doing that, thats how it reacts to equal break, how it reacts to weight shift like that..." etc. Very educational - wish I could see more cam footage of stuff like that - obviously doesn't touch an SIV course, but still very useful. Glad Joe is ok. And I laughed too at the pulling of the twig, but only because I kinda understood what he was doing...been in that mental state before (not throu paragliding thankfully), and its amazing what your mind latches onto after a stressful lucky escape. Pulling the twig probably seemed like a very sensible thing to do at the time Joined: 19 Jan 2005 I thought it should be done in a symmetrical manner. Gathered info: Reserve (How) (See item #7). Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Joined: 29 Jan 2005 I thought it should be done in a symmetrical manner. Gathered info: Reserve (How) (See item #7). Symmetrical sounds well and good but I don't know how well it works in practice. Pulling in a tip might give you some ugly oscillations for a few moments but I figure they would stop quickly enough (assuming you continued reeling in the canopy). My one pg reserve deployment was at a very low altitude and I didn't have time to disable the paraglider, I only had time to lean backwards and tuck in my arms and legs in an attempt to let my back protection act like a turtle shell. But here's a quote from a posting regarding a Croatian pilot that got sucked up in a CB to around 24K'. He chose to deploy his reserve because he needed his paraglider to wrap up in for warmth! <snip>Seconds later I hear a muffled crack and see it open and overtake my glider. Thank God! With a burst of adrenalin induced energy, I haul in the main canopy arm over fist and wrap it’s damp nylon around my shivering bare legs.<endsnip> For a full story of the cloudsuck check out: http://www.poweredparaglidingontario.com/weather/sucked_in.htm Forger Joined: 19 Jan 2005 I thought it should be done in a symmetrical manner. Gathered info: Reserve (How) (See item #7). Symmetrical sounds well and good but I don't know how well it works in practice. Pulling in a tip might give you some ugly oscillations for a few moments but I figure they would stop quickly enough (assuming you continued reeling in the canopy). The advice came not from me (what do I know - no reserve ride experience) but from Betty Pfeiffer (an article she wrote) who designs, tests and manufactures reserve parachutes. She (and a few others before her) helped me create/review that particular tip. I have limited experience as a pilot, so a lot of the stuff in here has been established by way better pilots than me. I am always open to reviewing those tips, and correcting them if needed. Nothing set in stone here. Joined: 10 Feb 2005 I wouldn't tell a new pilot that they MUST symmetrically disable their wing, or they MUST reel it in from one side. It's a decision that needs to be made on the spot and makes sense in that particular situation. Joined: 29 Jan 2005 I wouldn't tell a new pilot that they MUST symmetrically disable their wing, or they MUST reel it in from one side. It's a decision that needs to be made on the spot and makes sense in that particular situation. I agree. Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Why do the last 10 seconds remind me of the Blair Witch Project?...
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